tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post112910939051887559..comments2023-05-13T02:24:42.139-07:00Comments on Stones In the Field: The trouble with thought crimes...Machttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01846076773328384778noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129734943664835892005-10-19T08:15:00.000-07:002005-10-19T08:15:00.000-07:00Thank you Mac and Ms M. I can't see me at 48 strai...Thank you Mac and Ms M. I can't see me at 48 straining my remaining brain cells to remember the minutae of legal case law for a couple years, taking the bar exam and then starting (if it's even possible to get hired) at a seriously reduced rate of pay at the bottom of the procecutor's staff somewhere. Besides, it was my dream when I was young, I have a new one now. I'll probably blog about it one of these days. It has to do with books (no, not writing them - tho' that would be nice).<BR/><BR/>Mac, thanks again for having a cool blog with great commenters!ohdawnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01995493308490806364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129712640858200202005-10-19T02:04:00.000-07:002005-10-19T02:04:00.000-07:00Hi Dawno, it's never too late to go for your dream...Hi Dawno, it's never too late to go for your dreams. My mum just completed her Masters in Pyschotherapy soon after her 60th birthday. She used to run a Fashion shop. Also, a recently appointed judge to the Australian high court, judge Susan Crennan, only started her legal studies when she was in her mid thirties.Ms Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04919373115938586775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129704278628626602005-10-18T23:44:00.000-07:002005-10-18T23:44:00.000-07:00Dawno, my experience of you is that you're fair-mi...Dawno, my experience of you is that you're fair-minded, thoughtful, compassionate, and quite intelligent indeed. :)<BR/><BR/>You'd have made a hell of a good DA.<BR/><BR/>Ms. M--I think you're very right about perceiving laws as a remedy for cultural ills. I think we're seeing that played out right now in the battle over Miers' nomination for the US Supreme Court.Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01846076773328384778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129697784190997652005-10-18T21:56:00.000-07:002005-10-18T21:56:00.000-07:00Thank you Ms M. Today is one of those days where a...Thank you Ms M. Today is one of those days where actually having someone validate a thought I've had means more than you can ever know. I've been going thru a couple of weeks of wondering if I'm really as stupid as some people in "real life" are making me feel.<BR/><BR/>Deep dark Dawno secret: I wanted to become a lawyer when I was younger. Criminal prosecution. Yep. Dawno for DA.ohdawnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01995493308490806364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129668285621102332005-10-18T13:44:00.000-07:002005-10-18T13:44:00.000-07:00This is a very interesting post not least for the ...This is a very interesting post not least for the comments that it has received. Dawno, you hit the nail on the head, in my opinion, by identifying that while a crime can be committed and/or targeted to an individual, the law can recognise it in its social context and for its broader meaning. <BR/><BR/>I think it is critical to recognise that the law has a role to play in social development. In many cases, it is an effective tool for supporting social change, for instance, when a change agenda has just been introduced. In this sense, having different penalties is strategic as well as culturally and historically specific. Penalties may change over time depending on the political and cultural context. <BR/><BR/>However, in the Australian context, I have wondered for some time if some pushes for legislative changes such as "stiffer penalties" for crimes reflects an over reliance or emphasis on the law to resolve complex social issues where the law is only part of the solution. It is tempting but potentially dangerous, I think, to consider that the law is somehow "above" the social agenda, rather than understanding it as enmeshed in it. The danger is expressed when the law is perceived to be the forum for resolving all social issues, particularly difficult ones, when developing an alternative social response may actually result in a better overall resolution.Ms Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04919373115938586775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129432103333399032005-10-15T20:08:00.000-07:002005-10-15T20:08:00.000-07:00My feet are firmly planted about 5 centimeters rig...My feet are firmly planted about 5 centimeters right of center, thank you. I mean, isn't 'get tough on crime' conservative? You gonna have to 'splain how I'm goin' leftie...and leave the Birkenstocks out of it.ohdawnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01995493308490806364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129421476442138752005-10-15T17:11:00.000-07:002005-10-15T17:11:00.000-07:00Dawno explained it very well. It's true the crime...Dawno explained it very well. It's true the crime isn't just against one individual, but an entire group.<BR/><BR/>Thanks Dawno and you too Mac-great post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129415076995027692005-10-15T15:24:00.000-07:002005-10-15T15:24:00.000-07:00I share your view. I completely understand the rea...I share your view. <BR/><BR/>I completely understand the reasoning behind the legislation, but crime is crime.<BR/><BR/>It reminds me a bit of how people here on the island where I live sometimes suggest that crimes against tourists show carry stiffer penalties than those against locals. A big no-no in my book!<BR/><BR/>Let's just get serious about crime in general...and stamp it out at every juncture!Francescahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08354018733674437364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129412121623110842005-10-15T14:35:00.000-07:002005-10-15T14:35:00.000-07:00PLH--I won't tell. :) Nice to see you here, and t...PLH--I won't tell. :) Nice to see you here, and thanks.Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01846076773328384778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129404895028339692005-10-15T12:34:00.000-07:002005-10-15T12:34:00.000-07:00Dawno--you're sliding ever further to the left...*...Dawno--you're sliding ever further to the left...*grin* "Come to the dark side, Dawno...Feel the power..."<BR/><BR/>I have indeed succumbed. I spent two hours swatting spam the other night. That just seemed excessive.Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01846076773328384778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129403886755353142005-10-15T12:18:00.000-07:002005-10-15T12:18:00.000-07:00I see you've succumbed to the comment verification...I see you've succumbed to the comment verification meme :-)<BR/><BR/>A defendant's motivation for a crime is a big factor in deciding what level of crime will be prosecuted and what the statuatory limits on the ultimate sentence will be. Statuatory sentence limits are a big reason for the 'add ons'.<BR/><BR/>If you shoot someone accidentally and they die it's manslaughter. If you shoot someone in a fit of passion without pre-meditation it's distinguished from a murder that is planned out (murder 1, murder 2, murder with specials - like in the commission of another felony or in a kidnapping - which can lead to capital punishment in some states).<BR/><BR/>If you steal from the till to feed your family that would most likely get you a lower sentence (perhaps just restitution) than if you steal to buy a luxury or just to make the boss suffer. <BR/><BR/>Hate crimes are a type of deliberate act that is distinguishable from a similar crime in that there is a pre-meditation against a class of people, they aren't just a crime against a random person, they are intended to intimidate the rest of the class as well. So a hate crime isn't against just the victim and thus the larger picture should be figured into the punishment for the crime. <BR/><BR/>At least, that's how I see it.ohdawnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01995493308490806364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129389584075585942005-10-15T08:19:00.000-07:002005-10-15T08:19:00.000-07:00I think the law does it's collective best to right...I think the law does it's collective best to right a horrible wrong. In the process, it appears they're singling out a specific group. In reality, they've no idea how else to handle it and maybe hold hate crimes up as an example to others of that particular evil ilk. Hence, the tougher punishment.<BR/><BR/>Just a guess, but, you've got me thinking as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129389095636108752005-10-15T08:11:00.000-07:002005-10-15T08:11:00.000-07:00Since the crime isn't just against the one victim,...Since the crime isn't just against the one victim, but is meant as a threat to others of his/her "kind," maybe that's the distinction that requires greater punishment, and not necessarily the "thoughts" behind the action. Maybe the greater punishment is for the larger number of victims. I don't know, but you've got me thinking.shannonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10891791711455144647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260692.post-1129286171939254122005-10-14T03:36:00.000-07:002005-10-14T03:36:00.000-07:00Dont' apologize, Tilly--I'm delighted to have you ...Dont' apologize, Tilly--I'm delighted to have you here, and glad you expressed your own thoughts.<BR/><BR/>I'm still pretty conflicted about this, as well. It's simple to just say, "we should just prosecute the crime itself" but that doesn't quite work out, in the real world.<BR/><BR/>It doesn't work because spray-painting a swastika on a synagogue is clearly intrinsically different than tagging a freeway underpass--which is, I think where you were going with it, too.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure of the best way to shake this down for appropriate legal definitions, either.Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01846076773328384778noreply@blogger.com